Rivian's software chief thinks you don't need CarPlay or buttons

Evan Smith, cofounder and CEO of Altana, was last on the show in early 2025 to talk about how Trump’s first few waves of tariffs were starting to affect global trade. It was a very alarming and also very illuminating chat; Evan and I got into the existential weeds of international relations and economics almost immediately. A year and a half later, and everything is somehow even more chaotic than it was the last time Evan and I talked — and that’s true about both trade and also the world of running a software company. Agentic AI, whack-a-mole tariff policy, war in Iran — we jumped right back into weeds yet again. Links:  How Trump’s tariff chaos is already changing global trade | Decoder Skydio CEO Adam Bry on not drawing red lines for drone use | Decoder Trump imposes new global tariffs, drawing protests from trading partners | Reuters Greer: USMCA Talks Could Stretch Into Next Year | Wall Street Journal Trump hits Canada with new 50% tariffs | Associated Press Iran weaponized the Strait of Hormuz. Now neighbors are going around it | CNN The Iran war is testing Southeast Asia’s faith in the US | Politico Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Hayden Field, The Verge’s senior AI reporter, about the major trade secrets lawsuit between Apple and OpenAI, and what this tells us about OpenAI’s future.  Hayden has been covering OpenAI for years now, and she also just talked to a bunch of lawyers who specialize in intellectual property and trade secret law to get a sense of how serious this case is. The answer is not entirely positive for OpenAI. This legal battle could also affect OpenAI’s hardware plans, its forthcoming IPO, and its already-damaged reputation.  Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links:  Sam Altman didn’t need another lawsuit | The Verge OpenAI’s first device will be moveable, screenless speaker | Bloomberg Apple sues OpenAI for allegedly stealing hardware secrets | The Verge The 6 wildest claims in Apple’s lawsuit against OpenAI | The Verge OpenAI is buying Jony Ive’s AI hardware company | The Verge Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. Jill Lepore is one of the best writers there is at identifying institutional patterns in history, and Decoder is a show about systems and organization — so her new book, The Rise and Fall of the Artificial State, is a perfect fit for the show. You build systems by measuring things — gathering information, quantifying it as data, and taking action on it. The book's big thesis is that this kind of systemic measurement is really a dehumanizing act, one that flattens humanity and human concerns into something, well, artificial. These artificial structures touch everything — not just in the more obvious places like in apps or AI, but all the way up to politics, governance, and the very future of the nation-state itself. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links:  The Artificial State | The New Yorker  ‘Terminator’ to tech titans: Jill Lepore on the ‘artificial state’ | Yale Univ. The failed ideas that drive Elon Musk | New York Times Sam Altman | The Joe Rogan Experience Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve got the first of a two-part series on the systems that run the world: I’m talking today with Bart Butler, the CTO of Proton, the company that makes private and secure productivity software. There’s a lot of big Decoder themes in this one. That includes how Proton has structured its ownership and architected its products to align its incentives with protecting users. At the same time, Proton faces new challenges and pressures, both at home in Switzerland and from the EU and US government that are putting its values to the test.  Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links:  Proton now offers an entire bundle of office services | The Verge Proton Mail helped FBI unmask anonymous ‘Stop Cop City’ protester | 404Media Proton says it will leave Switzerland if this controversial law Is passed | Vice Age verification is a mess but we’re doing it anyway | The Verge Let’s build a children’s public internet | The Verge Let me see some ID: age verification is spreading across the internet | The Verge Why Chat Control 1.0 is the EU's most Orwellian law yet | Euronews Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nvidia is obviously in the news constantly because of the AI boom — but it's also a major supplier to the entire auto industry As head of Nvidia's automotive division, Xinzhou Wu has a front-row seat to all the challenges EVs and autonomous vehicles are facing, especially in the US. And of course, you can’t talk about electric cars or vehicle autonomy in the US without talking about Elon Musk and Tesla. So I asked Xinzhou pretty directly if Tesla full self driving can actually do what Elon claims it will be able to do without using LiDAR. You tell me if you think his answer holds up. Read the ⁠full interview transcript on The Verge⁠. Links:  Nvidia’s head of autonomous driving opens up about his plans | The Verge Hyundai, Nissan, BYD, and Geely Join Nvidia’s Level 4 | MotorTrend Nvidia, auto suppliers roll out partnerships to rekindle self-driving  | Reuters Meet Alpamayo, Nvidia’s new AI model for autonomous cars | Forbes I tested Nvidia’s FSD competitor — Tesla should be worried | The Verge Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt; this episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices