Microsoft thinks AI can beat Google at search — CEO Satya Nadella explains why

Hey! Nilay here. It’s conference season, so I’m traveling across the country and around the world a lot more than usual. Stay tuned for some very special Decoder episodes we have coming up soon, starting on Monday.  In the meantime, I wanted to share a conversation between my friend Peter Kafka and Condé Nast CEO Roger Lynch on the excellent Channels podcast. Lynch says he’s told his teams to assume that traffic will be zero from now on — that’s what I’ve been calling Google Zero. Roger also shares his thoughts on AI, the growing influence of the creator economy, and more. Links:  Channels with Peter Kafka | Apple Podcasts Condé Nast CEO: Plan As If Search Traffic Will Be Zero | Search Engine Journal Sundar Pichai on AI, the future of search, and what’s happening to the web | Decoder Google Zero is here — now what? | Decoder Google admits the open web is in ‘rapid decline’ | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today I’m talking with Mustafa Suleyman, the CEO of Microsoft AI. This is a real burner of an episode. We covered everything from his approach to training new models to his criticisms of Anthropic talking about Claude as though it is conscious.  Of course, we also talked about Microsoft’s relationship with OpenAI, how Mustafa is thinking about all the negative polling and political pushback around AI right now, and whether any of the consumer products are good enough to overcome it. Like I said, it’s a burner. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links:  Microsoft and OpenAI broke up — now they’re ready to fight | The Verge Microsoft Build 2026: The 7 biggest announcements | The Verge Microsoft’s first advanced reasoning AI is here | The Verge Microsoft’s new ‘superintelligence’ game plan is all about business | The Verge Here’s how the new Microsoft and OpenAI deal breaks down | The Verge Microsoft AI chief says 18 months until white-collar tasks automated by AI | FT Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My guest today is Ryan Mac, a technology reporter at The New York Times and co-author of the excellent book Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter, which came out in 2024. I wanted to have Ryan on today because we’re on the cusp of the SpaceX IPO, which promises to be one of the most consequential public offerings in history for a variety of reasons.  Its biggest-ever size, of course, at nearly $2 trillion dollars. But also because all kinds of rules that keep our markets fair are being bent, if not outright broken, along the way. And, also because buried somewhere inside SpaceX is X, the social platform formerly known as Twitter, which Musk purchased in 2022. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links:  Welcome to hell, Elon | The Verge The SpaceX IPO is great for Elon Musk and terrible for you | The Verge In SpaceX’s IPO, Elon Musk is the risk factor | The Verge For Wall Street, the only thing worse than SpaceX flopping is missing out | NYT How SpaceX Is structured to favor Elon Musk | NYT As the SpaceX hype machine steamrolls ahead, Wall Street jumps aboard | NYT The SpaceX IPO Reveals What Really Happened to Twitter | NY Mag Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I last talked to Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr in 2024 — when it was obvious that generative AI would upend the music industry, but not exactly clear how that would happen. Now, Harvey says AI is “omnipresent” in music production. So what kinds of tools are musicians using, in what way, and what kind of music is it making for us? Is it any good? And how do we identify, and take care of, actual human musicians in this mess? Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links:  Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr | Decoder Is ‘blue dot fever’ a real problem for the concert industry? | Los Angeles Times USA v. LiveNation-Ticketmaster: All the news | The Verge The future of country music is here, and it’s AI | The Verge Poll: AI is transforming how we think about music | Hollywood Reporter Inside the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ era of AI in music | Rolling Stone Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Wassym Bensaid, the chief software officer at Rivian, and the co-ceo of Rivian’s platform joint venture with Volkswagen. That joint venture, called RV Tech, is about a year and a half old, so I wanted to ask Wassym how it all works and Rivian’s ongoing relationship with Volkswagen.  Because it’s Rivian, I also had to ask Wassym about CarPlay. But the company also just launched an AI-powered voice assistant, which I got to try early. So I had a lot of fun digging into that with Wassym, too. This is a fun one – really in the weeds of a lot of my favorite things to talk about. Links:  Rivian’s AI-powered voice assistant is ready to roll | The Verge The R2 is nearly here — can Rivian stick the landing? | The Verge Rivian’s AI pivot is about more than chasing Tesla | The Verge Rivian / VW will start testing their first EVs next year | The Verge Rivian CEO: ‘We’re really convicted’ about skipping CarPlay | Decoder (2025) Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe says too many carmakers are copying Tesla | Decoder (2024) Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe isn't scared of the Cybertruck | Decoder (2023) Rivian’s chief software officer says in-car buttons are ‘an anomaly’ | TechCrunch Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt,. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices