ON BABY LOSS… With Sara Pascoe and Trinny Woodall

Charlotte Church is currently starring in the first ever series of BBC One’s Celebrity Traitors. But she first found global fame as the young classical singer with the voice of an angel. By 22, she had sold 10 million records and performed for popes, presidents and princes. The success came at a devastating personal cost - here, she tells us what really happened and how she found her way into what is arguably her most powerful iteration yet: her healing phase. This episode was recorded live in Bath earlier this year. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 06:33 Reconnecting with Nature 08:55 Psychedelic Experiences and Healing 10:31 Creative Struggles and Musical Journey 16:38 Reflections on the Music Industry 21:09 Family and Ambitions 21:33 Struggles with Patriarchy and Colonialism 22:30 The Symbolism of Tattoos 24:13 Understanding Patriarchy 29:57 Challenges in the Music Industry 31:28 Personal Identity 34:39 Embracing the Wild Woman Archetype 40:08 Balancing Fame and Personal Beliefs 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: There's no two ways about it: I was not looked after, I was not nurtured, I was just totally exploited. I was a commodity and the industry was incredibly razor sharp. What makes us advance, is suffering. I'm dreaming of a world where everybody can start to feel what balance truly feels like. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Charlotte is starring in Celebrity Traitors on BBC One Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content 📚 WANT MORE? Tom Daley - discusses overcoming perfectionism, anxiety, and the fear of failure. He also shares how failure shaped his resilience and coping strategies - like knitting! https://play.megaphone.fm/deiztbmwsrw-vz5by9ajtw Claudia Winkleman - talks hilariously about her dislike of perfectionism, her introversion, struggles with sleep and the challenges of living in the present. https://play.megaphone.fm/cszzpxoqqb6_jx2furt7ba Paloma Faith - reflects on her experiences with rejection and self‑judgment, struggling to conceive, and the tension between her public persona and inner vulnerabilities. https://play.megaphone.fm/rq-vrlg6sla2hyboi6znkq 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Elizabeth and Charlotte answer YOUR questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: howtofailpod.com Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Live Engineer: Will Kontargyris Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Sound Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Suhaar Ali Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Warning: this episode may contain MIND-BLOWING moments. Stephen Grosz is a practising psychoanalyst and a personal hero of mine. He has worked with patients for more than 45 years and his first book, The Examined Life, drew on these experiences. When it was published in 2013, it caused a sensation and went straight to number one in the Sunday Times bestseller list. Since then, hundreds of thousands of readers, including me, have taken it to our hearts. Now 12 years on from his debut, Grosz is back with Love's Labour, which asks fundamental questions around how to love and be loved in return, drawing on his almost half a century of clinical expertise. In this episode we discuss why real love causes suffering, why failed marriages are often the best kind, the difference between surrender and submission in relationships, why loss has to be part of being human and how we can be happy. Plus: a fascinating peek into what it’s like to be a psychoanalyst when I get to ask ‘are you ever annoyed by your clients?’ ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 02:28 Understanding Attachment to Suffering 04:25 The Role of Denial in Our Lives 06:32 Failures and Self-Perception 07:23 Stephen's Childhood 21:46 The Power of Unconscious Signals 25:24 Navigating Change and Loss 26:25 The Anxiety of Letting Go 28:22 The Price of Love 29:23 Writing from the Heart 30:16 Support Systems 32:27 Family Dynamics and Psychoanalysis 36:51 Surrender vs. Submission 45:25 Understanding Pain and Grief 48:25 Final Thoughts and Farewell 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: The aim of life is to see oneself clearly, and the world clearly. Psychoanalysis is two people not knowing - together. We have to figure it out together, and that means both of us will make mistakes and I will get it wrong. These failures brought me embarrassment, unhappiness, and pain. I wouldn't wish them away. Real love is going to hurt 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Stephen’s new book - Loves Labour: www.stephengrosz.com Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content 📚 WANT MORE? Dr Nicole LePera - The Holistic Psychologist sheds light on life’s struggles: https://link.chtbl.com/Tlf5L5Jb Emma Reed Turrell - the psychotherapist and author joins Elizabeth to discuss people-pleasing and the art of setting boundaries: https://link.chtbl.com/zthtQyEm Alain de Botton - the famed philosopher on how to love and be loved: https://link.chtbl.com/RBaS4VUy 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Elizabeth and Stephen answer YOUR questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: howtofailpod.com Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Sound Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Suhaar Ali Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we remember and celebrate the extraordinary life of Jilly Cooper, who has sadly passed away at the age of 88. A literary icon, Jilly captured hearts and imaginations with her wit, warmth, and unmistakable voice. Her novels, especially beloved titles like Riders and Rivals, sold over 11 million copies in the UK alone and most recently inspired the hit Disney+ adaptation that introduced her work to a whole new generation. I had the immense privilege of speaking with Jilly just last October. She was everything I’d hoped she would be - funny, sharp, generous and inspiring. Today, in tribute to her legacy and the joy she brought to so many, I’m honoured to share the conversation with you again. ___________________________________________________________________ Dame Jilly Cooper. What a legend. For the uninitiated (where have you been?) she’s a journalist and author most famous for her bestselling Rutshire Chronicle series which includes Riders, Polo and Rivals - the latter of which has now made into a hugely popular TV series starring David Tennant, Danny Dyer and Katherine Parkinson. In the past, Dame Jilly’s books have been unfairly dismissed as mere ‘bonkbusters’, charting the sex lives of the upper classes. But, as I discover, there’s much more to both her writing - and to her. We talk about her failures with technology, why she wishes she could throw more things away, as well as the terrifying time she lost an entire manuscript on the number 28 bus and had to rewrite it. Plus her experiences of interviewing Margaret Thatcher, her friendship with the Queen, her obsession with beautiful people and ‘macho men’ - and why she’d wholeheartedly recommend adoption to others. Thank you Dame Jilly. A total sport (but we knew that). ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Remembering Dame Gili Cooper 03:43 Personal Reflections and Literary Success 07:37 Exploring Themes of Masculinity and Beauty 10:15 Family, Loss, and Resilience 11:28 Failures and Fertility Challenges 21:18 Dieting and Body Image 25:12 Interviewing Margaret Thatcher 26:46 Technical Challenges and Writing Process 30:27 Friendship and Social Media 🔗 LINKS: Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to this How to Fail special where we journey through the archive to uncover insight and revisit powerful conversations. Each week, I hand-pick moments that speak to our shared challenges - hopefully offering comfort, clarity, and a renewed sense of perspective for whatever life might be throwing your way. Your 20s are notoriously a time of instability, during which you attempt to find yourself and figure out who you are. Which is why I wanted to bring you this episode! We hear from Phoebe Waller-Bridge who speaks about her rollercoaster 20s and the wisdom that hindsight has afforded her. Then the singer and actor Lily Allen shares her experiences of that decade which she lived out in the unforgiving glare of the public eye. Whether you're navigating this chapter yourself or walking alongside someone who is, I hope this episode offers a sense of solidarity, understanding and light in the darker moments. Listen to Phoebe Waller Bridge’s full episode of How to Fail here: https://link.chtbl.com/Vmnz_IXz Listen to Lily Allen full episode of How to Fail here: https://link.chtbl.com/7f_TpEQ6 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @howtofailpod @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod @elizabday Website: www.elizabethday.org Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We said goodbye to Jane Goodall, who passed away yesterday at 91 after a life that inspired millions. I feel so grateful to have had the chance to speak with her back in July 2022, a conversation I’ll never forget. Today, in honour of her incredible legacy, I want to re-share it with you. ___________________________________________________________________ The legendary Jane Goodall is a scientist, conservationist and humanitarian, whose 60-year study of wild chimpanzees in Tanzania challenged and overturned much of the conventional scientific thinking at the time. Her tireless work over the years - she is now 88 - has won her a legion of admirers, including David Attenborough, Leonardo di Caprio, Prince Harry and Greta Thunberg who calls Goodall ‘a true hero’. She joins me to talk about the resilience of hope, whether chimpanzees have a sense of failure, her own failures in language, correspondence and motherhood, and her belief in the next generation. This was one of the most enlightening podcast interviews I've ever had the privilege of doing. Please listen! ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Introduction and Tribute to Jane Goodall 01:47 Early Life and Career 04:14 The Concept of Hope and Optimism 08:55 Groundbreaking Work with Chimpanzees 15:16 Challenges and Triumphs  20:22 Reflections on Failure and Success 29:18 The Power of Imagination and Early Influences 30:22 Exploring Animal Friendships 32:43 Roots and Shoots: A Movement for Change 37:37 Spiritual Experiences and Beliefs 44:58 Challenges and Failures 49:48 Reflections on Parenting and Influential Figures 54:26 Messages of Hope and Resilience   🔗 LINKS: Jane Goodall Institute: https://janegoodall.org/ https://www.janegoodall.org.uk/ Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories   👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/   Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices